Wait...he couldn't give yo a definition as to what a real man is, and covers it up by saying, "You wouldn't understand."? What retard...that's some very mid-20th century thinking right there!

As much as i hate to say it...your mentor is right...a high percentage of guys you run into are gonna be all sorts of intimidated.

But just on the brighter side of things, not all of us from Camp Testosterone are like that.

--
"The training is nothing!"
"The WILL is EVERYTHING!" ~ R'as Al Ghul

Taking commissions, details here, [link]

i don't know, this seems like a subject that varies from person to person.

bein a female i can say that yes, MOST of the time that females take more to heart then men while SOME men have pride issues, so inorder to get them to really care you have to break their ego in half (no pun intended)

some guys do find a way to cheer their buddy up through strip clubs the same way girls take eachother shopping or gossip to cheer eachother up. as for sex being the answer...i don't know. everytime one of my guy friends are sad i don't find myself buying condoms and wearing a loud bright ass colored g-string.

theres no such thing as a 'real' man. you just have different genres of men. same with women. uhhh...am i doing this right?

maybe im not grasping the subject (partly cuz im at work) but what i feel here is just a matter of opinion instead of actually being sexiest or descriminated against.

(most) women are worst then men in some aspects, while (most) men are more straight forward, blunt.

i really don't think im doing this right

--
Recognize yer role, bitch.
...Keisha.

I probably shouldn't say anything, at least not until I'm done going over your previous journal (which by the way I've been taking some points to folks here in the art college, and have gotten some interesting results, you've started quite a project with that one!)

But, mainly, we have a lot of feminists running around here at the art college. ANd so the anti-guy sentiment is noticable here, but so is the abundance of nude female depictions. Ironic I think but,
I recently put the idea forward about equal treatment, and naturally I just got chewed on, the idea being "oh so you treat me badly so I should treat you badly and we're even? 2 wrongs don't make a right."
And that comment, actually told me a lot.

But girls = emotional, guy = rational is a common mentality, and it's one that I don't necessarily disagree with. Put me and my gilfriend together and you have a perfect example. But that doesn't mean there aren't exceptions. However, to be fair, she did catch me forgetting this and had to kick me in the butt to remind me. She is still perfectly intelligent and smart, and though I find it hard to take her seriously on a lot of things, she is NOT an idiot.

So I can see that happening here too, if that's what you mean.

Here's 3 points that have come up recently in my life on the subject:

A) You can't treat guys like girls or visa versa because they ARE different. To treat all people "the same" is to take away part of their humanity.
Example: The idea that the native americans lived in harmony with nature and were the country's first ecologists/environmentalists. This is totally not true for starters. Secondly it takes these people and lionises them into idealic beings which they were not, and this can be insulting if not simply dehumanising.

B) This is a slightly sloppy quote from The Irreponsible Captain Tylor:
"By nature man is slovenly, wild and unfaithful, and cannot be trusted. But you shouldn't try to tame a wild beast either.
-Then what are women to do.-
Women should be just as slovenly, wild and unfaithful."
This was an idea I saw echoed in the recent BEOWULF movie. Where men and women ran around being just as wild and crazy. Though men and women each had their seperate roles and appearances. Now both of these examples come from works of fiction, but the idea remains, even if we all act the same, our bodies are different and that directly affects our behaviour and so we cannot be the same, therefore we must be treated differently.

C) I recently came to the conclusion, the only way you'll see real equality (meaning the kind the feminists around here are asking for) is to get to the point where you no longer need the seperation between the men's and women's bathroom.
EXAMPLE: Shower scene from Starship Troopers. Co-ed shower.
The idea is that if people can just GET OVER it with the differences, they won't matter anymore. We're still in a culture that's all choked up about modesty, puritanism, and censorship and fear. If we can just get over it and say as a species (it's just skin) then you'll have people as equal as they can (conceivably) be.
Now of coarse the question is, IS that possible to attain. If NOT, well, I don't know what'll happen.

But this guy's idea of "you wouldn't understand cuz you're a girl" is bullshit. Like the idea that I had spit in my face about "you can't understand non-white people because you're white". Now I can see where the idea is coming from, and there is a measure of truth to it,but the example you produced here is not appropriate.

It doesn't matter who or what you are, there are going to be people who don't treat you "right". There is no way around it. Fight it or change it, love it or hate it, whatever, do what you think is right. But don't be surprised, it's part of life for all people. Best thing to do is just what you're doing right now, ask questions.

--
MOA: God's own anti-sonuvabitch machine!

You Came for the MOA Fun
You Stay for the MOALuv
You are now MOAs Minion

As you well Know we can not change WHAT we are, But we can become better at being OURSELVES. -Hiroyuki Utatane

I tend to agree with your mentor in that, for the most part, unfortunately we live in a C.Y.A (for those who don't know - "Cover Ya Ass") society. My opinion about how this affects social relationships is that basically every decision people a lot of people basically has to pass the CYA standard. You're a women with equal technical skills plus intangibles (Mind you everyone walks in with intangibles) but it makes life much simpler when people can segregate and denigrate...it allows them to "Control" (or so they believe) the elements in their environment.

The main thing is to identify and acknowledge the CYA folks early on. (which will generally be 8 out of 10 people)

I have to be honest, based on my social programming a strip joint is not the first place I would think to take a woman. Partly because I personally don't spend a lot of time at strip joints but also partly because my male mind wouldn't want to be in a Chip&Dales club and I would initially assume that women think the same way.

Having taken a woman to a strip club before I know this isn't the wisest thinking. A lot of women actually don't like going to strip clubs, but the ones that do (from my experience) just aren't into it in the same way guys are. It's more of just a party experience, but the club has to be cool looking.

Guys can just go to like a straight up "dive" strip joint where it's basically a dirty old man bar scene (always a disturbing) because there's just a need for cheap arousal.

--
_Butch Arrington: {Somebody's gotta be the HERO... Might as well be ME.}
"When a friend's in trouble, don't insult him/her by asking what you can do, think for yourself and start doing it." - Unknown

the other day i notice a comment on someone I watch saying his female character looks better as a guy. the character was a assassin wearing a panda helmet. he basically said the boobs takes away from the look. I ask him why and said the fact that she has breast showing could a insight in he persona. then he replied he thought a female panda assassin just ruins the look. I won't say anything after that because it got stupid after that but that's the kinda sexist sterotype that annoys me from comic fans who either want a female character that acts like a media sterotype.

--
I have no idea what you're talking about so here's a bunny with a pancake on top of it's head.
------------

HEY WANNA HELPOUT A DEVIANT IN NEED: CLICK HERE[link]

The question is what makes a real man? There's as many different answers for that as there is for "what makes a real woman?"

Men and women are emotional. Men generally just aren't as expressive overall is all.

As for what makes a real man...my definition is going to be different from others. A real man does not treat others like crap because he can, or to make him feel stronger. No. A real man treats all with respect to the best of his ability, stands up for what he believes, fights when called for, but is able to be gentle and introspective when necessary.

So let's turn the question over...what makes a real woman?

--
¤§¤

Announcer 1: "And here we are at the Ninja Pirate Dome! It's going to be an awesome fight, right Blake?"
Announcer 2: "My name is Frank."
A1: "Sure thing, Fred."
A2: "FRANK!"
A1: "Right you are Bob! And now, the fight begins!" *is shot*

You're friend's a chauvinistic turd who needs to get with the times. And for the record, I was at a strip bar a couple of weeks ago, and there were several women there, not just the dancers. Would a woman get the same "cheer me up" enjoyment out of a strip bar that a man would? That depends upon the woman. In a sense, your question was too vague. How to cheer someone up depends ENTIRELY upon the individual in question.

--
------
If we evolved from monkeys, then why aren't we flinging our poo at each other more often?

Real men - open doors for ladies and young ones
Real men - carry stuff for ladies and young ones
Real men - don't treat ladies as lewd objects
Real men - don't have to.

Fake men - rush through the door despite the ladies
Fake men - don't carry things for anyone....
Fake men - treat ladies as lewd objects
Fake men - have to -

Needless to say you obviously don't work with 'real men' you work with a bunch of wannabe fake men...

It's all about 'home training' - but you know that - men that are raised to respect and treat women with dignity are taught that from birth - Men that are not taught this tend to not respect women and act like those 'men' that you work with.

--
*SiathLinux ~DeviantlyEnlightened =BlueSnowGiesha
*3dConnect ~inner-space
Artist ~SuloinenEnkeli ~BloodyRaven =Dream-traveler ~heidivylyn ~Gonzale ~cyanide227 and *dancingperfect

I can't help to pin this up. I agree totally with your list, but can you imagine my confusion when I tell you that I have been, on several occasions, accausted (sp?) and insulted for doing all the things on the "real man" list?

Imagine how guys like me feel when we get in trouble for doing "what we're supposed to".

The reason I make the comment is because, while I agree, boy need to be raised right to BECOME good men who treat women right, is it not (yes this is a serious question, not sarcasm) only fair that girls be raised to BECOME good women who treat men right?
And shouldn't both be taught to appreciate each other, as opposed to having both sides trying to placate the other?

--
MOA: God's own anti-sonuvabitch machine!

You Came for the MOA Fun
You Stay for the MOALuv
You are now MOAs Minion

As you well Know we can not change WHAT we are, But we can become better at being OURSELVES. -Hiroyuki Utatane

What a difficult topic. It is hard to not generalize when discussing it. It is so easy to say that women are more emotional or men tend to be more goal focused. And there probably is a certain statistical truth to that. But who knows if these differences are biological or cultural?

Anyway, i get the feeling that your friend may be talking about the impact that dating has on the way boys and girls treat each other. Boys ideally treat boys differently than girls because most boys have some desire, however small, to date most of the girls they know. Girls on the other hand have guys they date and male friends they want only as friends. This difference in sexuality and approach has a big impact on how each sex treats their friends.

As for "they don't find me attractive" and don't want to talk, I hate to hear that, but it is part of life. Everyone gets treated differently if they are ugly. Boys and girls. The only difference is men get a little more slack cut to them on what it means to be ugly. A fat girl might be considered ugly, while the same sized male, if he dresses nice and grooms well might be considered "just ok." On the flip side of this, men have a lot more expected of them socially. A man can be considered worthless and weak for things that if found in a woman, make her "cute" or "naive."

Good luck with it. There is what society expects us to be, and there is who we are. We live with the struggle between the two ideals. I hope your struggle works out for you.